I'm essentially saying that because Maul's Force Rage took him higher and Sidious wasn't trying to blitz them, they had an opportunity to compete in terms of skill; Maul was still losing but he held his own and even landed a kick, and then Sidious overpowered him with sheer strength. Not to mention in the old EU a clone of Maul almost beat Vader, and he would of died there if he didn't get medical attention. Schilling wants to be taken off HOF ballot. Vader and Luke are not two numbers below Maul as a duelist - that is the epitome of ridiculous. Re: Luke Skywalker vs Darth Maul on May 6th 2019, 10:16 pm It's also worth noting that, alongside the comic stating Vader brings his "full strength and power" against Luke, it also notes that Vader's fighting "brutally, aggressively." Or for another perspective, the time it took for Dooku to dispatch Tiplee. Only at the end of the fight, like the very last second, did Sidious go all out. Lord Vader did not mind waiting, though, nor was even aware of it. Both Vader and Luke were holding back a good degree the entire fight. @crushyourenemies: Vader was trying to push Luke. Even Sidous was pushed by Maul. At that point it was clear Vader wanted to kill Luke and keep Leia instead. MORALS ON FOR EACH ROUND.ROUND 1ROTJ Luke vs TPM MaulForce, Sabers, All OutROUND 2ROTJ Luke vs SoD MaulForce, Sabers, All OutROUND 3Dark Empire Luke v If Sidious did go all out, he would pretty much blitz Maul. Assuming this is the case when they fight, the initial edge goes to Maul. Marek's pretty damn high up my list and Vader did pretty damn well against him. Maul has to be about a 9 in lightsaber combat do to matching sidious for an extended amount of time when sidious could kill masters like kit fisto in seconds. Obviously the numbers don't really mean anything but I put them to help people see why I'm saying what I'm saying. Hilarious how you use that example when you just tried to explain to me that the emotional state of the Skywalkers was the focal point for their respective victories. And yeah, Mace>Maul. @i_like_swords: Hows that make Maul a mastermind? @i_like_swords: Haha alright good point, however it's not like Maul had Chosen One potential or was more then an assassin in Sidious's eyes. @dccomicsrule2011: I said that was my opinion of how I would rank them in terms of skill and power. But when Sidious did go all out, he formed so many lightsabers that Maul saw them coming from all angles, and then even more. So that's why I said it can go either way. @wollfmyth209: (((LOL. Luke Skywalker is the main protagonist of the Star Wars original trilogy. maul isn't a 6 in lightsaber combat. When Vader goes beast mode he could match sidious for a short amount of time, but of course he would never win. But he defeated them while there were 3 or more at a time. It took two Jedi in the movie to hold Maul off, though Qui-Gon did a credible job on Tatooine. Luke matching Vader places him as a comfortable 8. Because Luke's potential is greater than Anakin's, so he progressed quite quickly. Sidious was playing with Maul the entire fight. But Luke is a better Jedi, more proficient in the Force and more creative in its use. I don't see why not. Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) was a male human-cyborg Dark Lord of the Sith and the third and final apprentice of Darth Sidious, who first appeared in the Star Wars original trilogy, and later in the prequel trilogy. Anyways, he beat average Jedi, yes. Because when Sidious actually did get serious, he moved so fast Maul saw "countless blades". Luke is more skilled than Jinn by a good amount. Maul was initially an assassin, Dooku was primarily a politician and placeholder. Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader would be able to defeat Maul. If Return of the Jedi came out in 1999, Luke's skills would probably be well above Maul. @darthsamburger: Vader was having trouble with an old obi wan. The dude was trained by Yoda and Vader said his skills were complete. If you were even paying half attention to the fight you will realize that Sidious was toying with Maul from the very beginning. And an untrained Luke kept up with Celeste Morne's speed, and matched Vader's strength, so Maul's physical edge shouldn't impact much on the battle. After the former returned from exile he began being written as a mastermind (see The Sith Hunters, Death Sentence, SW.com and really any source from that time period). After Savage died Maul fought sidous evenly for about 30 seconds and even pushed him back. Online-Zeiten5. In Shadow Conspiracy Maul wasn't dual-wielding and wasn't nearly as rage-enhanced as he was in the episode. The other Jedi was Aayla Secura, and Maul was not winning. Sidious wasn't holding back in terms of lightsaber combat, just the force. Standard gear for both and they are in-character. @i_like_swords: Scheming Mastermind is just a statement right now. Easily whooped Opress and then made Maul beg like a little b*(*). If anything Dooku was the scheming mastermind to secede and they can't just overwrite the canon. ? Anyways, it's not speculation. That just means ANH Vader is good, and by ESB he would've improved drastically in skill. His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. you can even see Sidous is getting angry. only in the last 20 seconds when maul is angry does sidious stop messing around. Dooku was more the former. That is, if we take the Expanded Universe into account. Vader, angry or not, ain't matching Palpatine. Ok I agree with basically everything you said. on December 10th 2020, 6:31 am @HellfireUnit wrote:Why do you assume I meant Tenebrae? because even though it is my opinion if you would rank them much differently. Husband honors wife killed in crash with Kobe, 'Wow, you're alive?' Maul has much more experience as a duelist. Well, you can't take Luke from the movies. Even until the last moments, Sidious didn't go fully all out until the end. Sidious spanked him, so that example is utter crap. If this were a badass contest though, Maul would win, hands down. And he stomped Maul. I used to think low of Marek, but after some re-reading of his feats in the books, I realized my mistake. Nobody is disputing that he wasn't going all out. Power, that is Force, is in Luke's corner. Even though Maul just held Mace back, not being instantly killed by being ganged up by the second strongest jedi and another knight proves he is high tier. The assassin thing used to be the case (albeit a very, very capable assassin at that), but recently SW.com and some creator commentary has overwritten that; Sidious is now meant to have trained Maul to be a "scheming mastermind" who was going to someday take over for him if need be. Nope, Sidious took Savage like a walk in the park and once Sidious started trying, the fight ended. Schlusswort1. His best TK feat is holding up a AT-ST; Maul was dragging an entire Shuttle while hurried and injured. Assuming this is the case when they fight, the initial edge goes to Maul. @wollfmyth209: Sidious showed no signs of holding back in those last 20 seconds, stop speculating. but that was only due to the fact he blitzed aayla. Potential usually is irrelevant. It is obvious they were both past there prime. And I mean, it's not as if Maul was trained from infancy by Darth Sidious or anything along those lines. Luke Skywalker (* 19 VSY auf Polis Massa; † 34 NSY auf Ahch-To) war der Sohn von Senatorin Padmé Amidala und Anakin Skywalker. RoTJ Luke's skill feats are on par, or slightly above Maul's. He's not several echelons above Maul; that's preposterous. While Darth Vader vs Maul would be slightly more difficult for Skywalker due to his slowed movements and Maul's quickstep, Vader would easily be able to halt Maul with a simple force choke, rendering him useless. If we took them at their primes, Luke wins 8/10 times, ROTJ vs Rebels Maul wins 6/10, anything before ROTJ Maul wins 10/10 times. Also in Daurth Maul Son of Dathomir Darth Maul fights Mace Windu and Another Jedi at the same time and was winning. In lightsaber combat Vader would lose to ROS Anikan. like i said i'm no more than 2 points off. What feats does ROJ Luke have that put him above Maul, Maul: Lightsaber: 9 Force: 7 (clone wars) 8. So there you have it. I don't think Maul would stomp Luke. @crushyourenemies: If you paid any attention to what I was saying you would know that I already knew sidious started out toying with maul. And Vader being on par with the Force with Sidious? During that time, Sidious would take on two apprentices, Darth Maul and Tyranus, before setting his eyes on young Anakin Skywalker. He's also noticeably stronger tactically. A college coach turning down money? Your argument is that even post-Savage's death, Sidious was playing with Maul. And a result was a stalemate until Luke jumped Vader and attacked while amped by rage. Follow 928. In lightsaber combat Vader would lose to ROS Anikan. OOC Daten3. He would've lost quite solidly if he stayed since Mace>Maul. First he dodged one attack, then another, then Sidious went all out and basically speedblitzed him:))). After Savage died Maul fought sidous evenly for about 30 seconds and even pushed him back. Maul ragdolling obi wan in the clone wars proves he is at least a 7 in the force unless you think kenobi is a weakling. Also in Daurth Maul Son of Dathomir Darth Maul fights Mace Windu and Another Jedi at the same time and was winning. Maul was out dueling Qui gon and Obi wan at the same time. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that. Of course vader lost his potential when he was put into the suite, but he should still be able to hold his own if amped. This is true for both our reality and the one that exists within the Star Wars universe. Vader isn't on par with sidous with the force, but that is only due to lack of knowledge of the force and his lost potential. 19 years later, he encountered former Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi(Under the alias "Ben Kenobi") and joined the Rebel Alliance to bring down the Galactic Empire. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Nope. And I'm telling you that they're way off, in my honest opinion. Luke's Force edge, while by a good degree, will be negligable given his tendencies. He's much more aggressive, and in my opinion he's faster. @crushyourenemies: Vader was trying to push Luke. Maul was the only one to land a hit, so he was technically winning, even though he would of lost eventually. So that means RoTJ Vader is gonna be at least as good a duelist as Maul. Maul, at the time of The Phantom Menace, has no Force feats above or on par with Luke's feats of deflecting objects sent at him by Vader in one of their duels, dominating the mind of a Dragon Snake, finding all the bombs and rigged mechanics in Cloud City and utterly destroying them, etc. Sidious also believed vader would surpass him by quite a bit especially since he has a higher mediclorian count. If this is ROTJ Luke I’d say maul would win in a very close fight. So that is irrelevant. @nishi99: Well, he already is one as per SW.com. Eh. So much bad logic going on here I don't know who to call out first. Dooku planned many times before with Asajj Ventress & Savage Opress to overthrow Sidious. Luke came into his Jedi Prime about 10 years after the movies. It is obvious they were both past there prime. The fight looks shorter than it is due to the panels being cut, but Maul and Mace didn't clash blades once in the time it took Aayla to fall to her feet and then stand back up and engage. But Luke was a more-than-proficient Lightsaber duelist, so I would say he could at least fend off the initial attack. Not sure if you can justify Sidious quite "playing with" Maul after Savage's death. ANH Vader losing to a Maul doppleganger means nothing. Maul isn't a 9. Being way out of Aayla's league doesn't say much, since many characters are. Also based on canon feats Maul has better feats than Vader. Level Six. If I ever need a good laugh, I'm glad I can always come back to this thread. After that, Luke's knowledge in the force grew to such a level where he was probably more powerful than Sidious. He was trying to force Luke to give into his anger, and he knew Luke wasn't a push over. Any good shoujo/romance manga’s to watch. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor. Luke. Very close, however, Maul is far more experienced at this point and has a broader fighting style. Maul: Maul > Tenebrae? Vorwort: Guten Tag, meine werten… 0. Maul being a better duelist than Vader? (Star Wars) Why Storm Trooper's equipment sucks? Darth Maul was in his prime right before his death in episode 1. If potential did count, Anakin would be better than Yoda. After that it was over. Vader wasn't trying his hardest to kill him. Ugh. He kept his eyes inward, seeking reflection in his own bottomless core. Anakin From Episode 2 VS Darth Maul From Episode 1Both are armed only with their own Lighsabers. If anything Maul has shown better force combat feats. Even in those last 20 seconds. I think it would be like Qui Gon vs Maul. So IF he could survive the initial assault, Luke would win. So RoTJ Luke is about his equal in dueling skill. He would put up a good fight against Maul, but lose due to his lack of training and experience. If this is ROTJ Luke I’d say maul would win in a very close fight. He was a wuss, then. In the Mace vs Maul fight, Maul wasn't scared and said, finally a fair fight. I gave him an 8 in the force due to his potential, but he hasn't reached it yet. He, while amped by rage, competed with a Sidious who wasn't even trying, and he's bested Jinn and Kenobi by separating the two from each other and taking them out one at a time. That combined with a Force edge is enough to counteract Luke's innate adaptability, IMO. Indeed, a factual one from an out-of-universe source. He had them already pinned against the wall and LET THEM GO FREE. ROTJ luke out skills kenobi. 2. incursion2 . Maul and Savage landing hits means nothing since Sidious effortlessly dodged all of their other attacks and wasn't even phased by those attacks. Luke doesn't have any strength feats exceeding Maul and I'd like to say visa versa, so that shouldn't matter. Like I said, the novel represents a fight between them with Maul fighting at regular levels and Sidious going all out, whereas the episode represents what would happen if Maul was fighting at his absolute peak and if Sidious entertained a serious duel with him. Well actually, it kind of is. Warum ich Luke abgegebe6. Since A New Hope Vader was described as a mere shadow of Anakin Skywalker, and he felt far greater levels of power during Return of the Jedi. Luke>Vader>Maul This also. Get your answers by asking now. Who are both above Darth Vader (non angry). In Shadow Consiparcy, Sidious blitzed Maul and disarmed him as soon as he actually went serious. Vader was having trouble with an old obi wan. Er war der Zwillingsbruder von Prinzessin Leia Organa . What was the last good cartoon Cartoon Network made? He has no feats above TPM Maul in skill, hence why I said this can go either way in my original post. In the end, I'd have to say Skywalker would win. Vader is the most effective jedi killer in the SW universe what are you talking about? He was mocking them BOTH through the whole fight. During RoTJ, he improved greatly. A circumstantial victory. Einzigartige Darth Maul Sticker und Aufkleber Von Künstlern designt und verkauft Bis zu 50% Rabatt Für Laptop, Trinkflasche, Helm und Auto. @crushyourenemies: You know all of the previous EU has been thrown out. But he has stalemated RoTJ Vader. After the fall of the empire, he would go on to establish the New Jedi Order and eventually serve as its Grand Master. Luke as of RoTJ would also get blitzed, ragdolled, or spanked by Sidious as well. Luke has better force feats, maul has force pushed kenobi like four feet. This one did it twice. (those are 2 numbers off of what i said if you don't remember). Blade locking with Mace a few times and kicking Aayla's impressive. on December 10th 2020, 5:28 am. @i_like_swords: ....uh movie versions? Because when Sidious actually did get serious, he moved so fast Maul saw "countless blades". Scans? I meant that he was winding against windu and aayla not sidious. Still confused by Trump's bleach suggestion? Why do you assume I meant Tenebrae? Darth Maul was in his prime right before his death in episode 1. This is Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker vs The Phantom Menace Darth Maul. Fight takes place on It is ridiculous to say Luke who only had a couple weeks of training could defeat one of the deadliest sith of all times who had over 15 years of intense sith training. STAR WARS VERSUS is BACK! Maul has that physical edge and training that wins him the fight. In the episode he disarmed him handily, in the novel he blitzed him. Even Sidous was pushed by Maul. ..and didn't even put those plans into action, much less come close to succeeding. I definitely could not see Luke defeating Qui Gon Jin and Obi Wan at the same time. He only lost due to being tired and off guard. Although Maul is a very skilled lightsaber-wielder and an experienced fighter overall, Luke is a stronger jedi, biologically (since he is the son of Anakin). And he stomped Maul. that means you don't know what you are talking about since at most I'm 2 numbers off on something. Yeah right, I'm pretty sure I'm more qualified to make such claims, than you are, tbh. Vader and Luke aren't a 4 or 10 in lightsaber combat. If Luke Skywalker met face-to-face with Darth Maul on the battlefront, who would come out on top? Beide wurden nach der Geburt getrennt aufgezogen, damit ihr Vater, der zu dieser Zeit bereits der dunkle Sith-Lord Darth Vader war, nichts von ihnen erfahren konnte und sie später nicht suchen würde. Luke doesn't need feats because Maul is already by design far inferior. Yeah. @nishi99: True. @i_like_swords: I saw scheming mastermind on his google profile, which he kind of was in TCW, but not by much. @i_like_swords: Or the son of a guy who was fathered by the Force itself. Maul winning is lolworthy. 7/28/2020. The Fallen Knight. After converting Anakin to his cause as Darth Vader, the two purged the Jedi into nigh extinction as they ruled the Galaxy from their Empire. 1. He was trying to force Luke to give into his anger, and he knew Luke wasn't a push over. In Shadow Consiparcy, Sidious blitzed Maul and disarmed him as soon as he actually went serious. Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor. 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